Watch Out for Burnout! Tips to Stay Sane and Happy as a “Personality” Manager

Episode Blog

TOM: Hey, welcome back to the CACM Podcast, HOA Life, where no topic is off limits. I’m joined again today by our Southern California Regional Director, Alia, welcome back. 

ALIA:  Hi, Tom.  

TOM: Kind of awkward to welcome you back when you know you’re two offices away. Thank you for taking time out of your busy day. 

ALIA: I just heard a gangster story, so I’m like, “How are we going to put this one?” 

TOM: Oh, come on. You know, it’s a gangster rap video. What do you want? 

I think for today’s episode, I think we should address kind of what I always consider an elephant in the room, no matter where I am, no matter what event I’m at. I talk to managers. I’ve lived that life for roughly 38 years. One of the things that I hear a tremendous amount of time from people is burnout. How do they avoid burnout? How to what are the tricks to avoid burnout? And you, you come out of the management industry. So, I’m going to ask you candidly, what is what does that mean? What do they like? What is a burnout? What is a manager experiencing when we say a manager burnout, or an industry burnout? What does that mean? 

ALIA: I think we do have, and please, let me emphasize, every situation is different. Every company has different protocols, and I think when there’s flexibility, it’s easier to avoid. Now, obviously, people work in portfolio, or they’re hiring their client facing every day or their portfolio, and they only have to be in the office once a week or so. Everybody has different ways of how they’re handling it, but we’re throwing so many different curveballs. We need to know stuff on city dates. But I have nine properties. I need to know nine different cities and when that needs to be done by or, you know, I have 10 budgets that are due in the next month, and you know, I still have projects that I’m handling, and I think we’re pulled in a lot of different directions, and we know that we all wear so many different hats. Maybe you’re a social worker one day, your therapist the next day, and then you’re a project manager the next day. And so how do we still enjoy our lives and not let it totally consume us? I think that’s where it comes from, from my personal experience, but it’s hard because we have so many different people we’re dealing with every day, and some of them are lovely and we can’t wait to hear from them, and some of them are just not. So how do we protect our energy and make sure that we’re still enjoying ourselves? So that’s kind of when I look at burnout and I look at like, how is your energy? How is, are you feeling negative about stupid stuff, like you’re mad at somebody cut you off on the freeway, and it’s a really big deal, but it’s really not who cares. You’re going to get there anyway. 

TOM: Okay, that’s a big deal to me. 

ALIA: Is it?  

TOM: Come on.  

ALIA: Clearly you have somewhere else to be faster than I do, so go out. 

TOM: Okay, that’s valid. If I’m in the left lane and they’re flying by me and I haven’t moved over. Okay, that’s, you know, I can appreciate that. It’s usually the other way around, but that’s neither here nor there. I’m interrupting you. I apologize. 

ALIA: No, you’re fine. I’ve driven in your car with you, and I’m actually impressed with your speed racer driving. I think I drive like a grandma,  

TOM: So, I learned how to drive. Well, I learned how to drive aggressively and defensively by driving around Manhattan, New York. So, it’s, it’s one of those worlds, one of those worlds where you see a yellow light and your immediate reaction is, how quickly can I get through it? Yeah, that’s the aggressive side. The defensive side is, is somebody blowing through their red light, seeing that my light is, is, is yellow, so they know their light’s about to turn green. And I always say that from experience. So, there’s, there’s one that there was one or two incidents,  

ALIA: Okay, so maybe I’ll meet you at places going forward.  

TOM: Back to burnout.  

ALIA: So poor performance. Are you not passionate about what you’re doing every day? There is weird symptoms that physically can happen, like headaches, digestive issues. Are you running to the bathroom all day? Office? Sleep issues. Are you having a hard time focusing? Are you just grumpy? Those are signs of burnout. And so how do we avoid getting to that place when you’re in the midst of it? It’s obviously a different discussion on how to get out of it, right? But how do we avoid getting to that place when we’re supposed to in addition to wearing so many hats, you still have a life at home. You have dogs to walk or kids to pick up, or houses to clean and dinner to make, and life is busy and so  

Tom: Well, it’s also hard, you use the term grumpy. You are again your experienced manager, so you can appreciate, as I’m sure many of our listeners will appreciate, that it’s really, really difficult not to be grumpy when you get all day long harassing or accusing or aggressive communications from homeowners, bullying from homeowners, board members, industry partners, waiting for checks. You know, whatever the case may be, you, a manager, have an extremely difficult career that has tremendous advantages. I’m not trying to make this sound like you know, woe is our industry, but I think recognizing that the manager has a very challenging career is one of the reasons we wanted to tap on this topic. And grumpy is very, very hard not to be when you deal with that stuff all day. How do you avoid that? How do you avoid staying grumpy? Or, yeah, how do you avoid remaining grumpy at the end of your day, or when you hang up that phone, or when you close your outlook, how do you, how do you push through to go back to your who you really are as a person?  

ALIA: That’s a loaded one. Um. 

TOM: Well, I mean, it could be anything. It could be, you know, for me, it’s, you know, wine and vodka. No, I’m kidding.  

ALIA: Trust me vodka.  

TOM: Trust me vodka. There’s a shameless plug for, trust me vodka and based out of Carlsbad, putting that aside the, I mean, there’s, there’s a ton of ways of avoiding burnout, taking a vacation day. So many managers, and candidly, so many people in CACM, on my own team, you know, they, they look at the vacation, they just kind of go, do I want to stress over staying at work and being burnt? Or do I want to stress about going on vacation, taking time away from work so when I come back, I have a tremendous amount to do. I mean, I took my first two week vacation earlier this year, in, gosh, 15 years, and I don’t know which was worse, the anxiety walking into the vacation and preparing for the vacation, or the anxiety coming back from the vacation, because you have to prepare to go away, and then while you’re away, if you truly unplug, which I’m one of those people that Don’t actually do that. So, you know, do as I say, not as I do is, you know, the return side was just as bad. So, I think managers should absolutely, or pretty much everybody should, be taking a day off, taking a vacation day, and, you know, allowing their mental capacity to readjust, go out and smell the roses, stand in the sun, sit in the sun, 20 minutes, all it takes, and it’s amazing. But what other what other options do people have? What are the tricks of the trade that you do?  

ALIA: For me specifically? Well, I think figuring out what the stress is, right, identifying what stressors are in your life, and if you can, if it’s work, obviously this doesn’t really necessarily work. If it’s something outside of that, how do you pull yourself back from that? I think that’s number one and having fabulous time management. And if you don’t, we will teach you, or we will give you tricks, or we’ll give you samples of how to do that, or Google it, because there’s so many different ways that adjusting your calendar. For me, I have color code on my calendar, and I still have paper. So blue is work, red is bills, pink is health, yellow is working out, and if I and purple is fun, right? And I literally color code everything on my page, and if I see too much of one, okay, how do we mix it up a little bit? And health doesn’t need to be a doctor’s appointment or right a walk or a workout. It literally could just go get a massage that Sunday night, you know. So, are all the colors on there correctly?  

TOM: You know, health could also be just going to the gym, or, I was going to say not even going to a gym. Just go out for a walk, and you’re going in your neighborhood, go out in the parking lot at lunch. I mean, I sit here in my office and see people walk by all day long, and not just, I mean, they’re just going out and getting some breath, a breath of fresh air, and, you know, allowing their brains to readjust.  

ALIA: I think there’s actually a team behind you sitting by the water fountain. Behind you, all eating their lunch together outside, which I love, because I want to be outside more than inside. Let’s be real. 

TOM: I think we all do. 

ALIA: Truly, I think going back to basics. Are you not getting enough sleep? Are you doing things in your life that you love to do? Are you drinking enough water? Throughout the day. Like, I know it sounds so cheesy and annoying, but it’s like, those are the basics. You know, if you’re not serving yourself, and what do you do for yourself? For me, my morning routine is really important. Feel like I’m doing so many things throughout the day to still I’m serving everybody. Like, when do I give time to myself? I read my book, I make my bed, I go on a walk, I do my meditation like I have a very strict morning routine so that I can go out into the world and be fresh, and I’ve already taken care of myself.  

TOM: Well, you know, one of the things that I think also helps is, if you are in a relationship, I have a huge advantage that I’m, I’m married to someone who A happens to understand our industry. But more importantly, she allows me to come home and just barf out my day, just kind of, kind of, and she’s always been that way, even when I was on the management side, she would just let me come home and just this person, this, and this person that. And, you know, I just start freaking out. And, you know, 15 minutes later, I’m going, Wow, I that. Thanks. I feel like so much better, because sometimes it takes that ability to just get it out of your system, just to verbalize it. It’s like, it’s like, you really want to send that homeowner, that that really challenging homeowner, that F-U email, and then, and, and you, you type it, and the only thing you should never, ever, ever do is fill in the “To:” section like, what email address are you sending it to? Just don’t fill that in. Just go into the text and type in your email. Because what I’ve always found, at least for me, that made me feel so much better, just I want to say verbalizing, but writing it into a into a note, because I don’t have to send it. Obviously, I didn’t fill in, so I couldn’t accidentally send it. So, it just made me I could save it, and if I feel like sending it later, like I’m I might do to this, this, this San Diego CEO that open publicly is, is has questioned my professionalism and my career. I, you know, I got a whole email that I’ve drafted, and I’ve just, I just, you know, part of me is like A It’s not worth it, because I’m just not somebody who wants to buy into all that stupidity and B it just made me feel better to draft it and get it off your chest. I mean, those are the simple things that that everybody can do to just mentally get past the challenge of a day. 

ALIA: Which, you know, I also have a very supportive significant other, but if you don’t that, email is a great tip. And also, I don’t think, I think there’s this, like, taboo thing about therapy. It’s a great way to word vomit to somebody that you don’t see on a regular basis. So, I’m a big advocate of that. It’s kind of like resets you, you know, how can I make myself better. In addition to also just word vomit, it’s healthy, getting it off your chest, and it’s not in you, and you’re not angry, you know?  

TOM: Yeah, it’s proven medically, statistically, psychologically, that if you don’t let it out, you are raising your increase for bad health, poor health, and you’re raising the increased potential for very early and quick burnout, especially in this industry. You really managers out there, please talk to somebody.  

ALIA: So, on the topic of therapy, I have had some wonderful industry mentors in the past, and I’ve also love the tools that previous therapists have, like, shared with me that will work. And one of them is, you know, we have 60 to 70,000 thoughts per day, and I’m sure it’s a different ratio between men and women. Let’s be real, but 93% of them are negative, so we have to, like, reset that and be cognizant of that. And so instead, and I’m a thinker, right? So I like analyze things alone and process things alone, and everybody’s different. But then I notice I’m in my head more than action. So, part of the reason I like to wake up first thing in the morning. Mel Robbins style, 54321, I don’t if you don’t know who that is, look her up. She’s great. And hit the ground running. I take my green shot, I walk the dogs, I make the bed. Those are like three non-negotiables. I already feel like I’m in action. I don’t like walking in the morning, and I don’t want to do a chore in the morning. Let’s be real. But it helps me set the day right. And so, another thing a mentor actually kind of shared with me early on in my career was like we’re constantly like, juggling different plates, and some of them are plastic and some of them are glass. And so how do we know with our busy, busy schedules, what that looks like? Well, we can. Let the glass fall first. So that’s what we should do first. So, it’s almost like leaning into what’s uncomfortable or the hardest or the most time consuming, and then everything else is just easy to follow. And so, making sure that you give yourself some grace and you kind of like rewire the thoughts that you’re thinking so that you can be your own advocate and be really kind of kind to yourself, because we’re busy, right? I think people live by busy. So, you’re like, oh, how are you doing? Oh, just busy. Well, we all are. So, what are we doing to like, give ourselves that grace? Another thing is having a pump-up playlist. So, all the songs that just like are the feel-good songs to you, and everybody has different music tastes. Right now, I’m jamming to post Malone’s new album, but it’s like, what are those songs and what are we listening to? Is it a podcast? Is it like a crime TV show? Like, if you’re in a tough headspace, or you’re overwhelmed with stuff, removing the negative and making it be like positive things that you’re hearing to like rebuttal, all those negative thoughts, the crazy part of those thoughts, I think I already said this, but 93% of them are repetitive. So how do we rewrite that? And a lot of them are like limiting beliefs or our agenda, or whatever that is. So, processing that is important. Another struggle I’ve kind of had is being really present. So if I know, I have a huge project coming up at work, but I’m going on a date night with my fiancé, or I’m going to go hang out with my niece and nephews, whatever, whatever the thing is, and I’m still thinking of that project or thinking of the to do list when I the things I have to do when I get home or get to work on Monday. It’s like, it’s removing that time to, like, be away from work or be away from day-to-day chores that have to be done. So really kind of texting myself, and I’m literally programmed in my phone. That sounds weird, but I text myself those things to get them out of my head. This helps too, if you’re, if you’re like, waking up in the middle of the night and you’re like, oh my gosh, I have to do this thing. And then now you can’t go back to sleep, text yourself it’s out of your head, done. You’ll worry about in the morning. And also, if it’s for work, I’ll email my email myself, like add to do list, and then I make the list. And now it’s out of my head. I won’t forget about it, because I’m going to see it on Monday, and now I can be more present too. So those are just kind of tricks that have helped me, and just giving yourself some grace, because sometimes we’re going through tough seasons or busy seasons. I can’t stand that word, but busy seasons, and it’s just a season like, we’ll get past it, and it’ll be easier soon. So yeah, that’s kind of the things that have you know, mentors have shared with me, or therapists have helped me with and honestly, like finding those tricks really just help you live in the moment, which is really kind of nice. 

TOM: You know, there’s so many times on stage in presentations that I’ve had to raise the issue of people that we’ve lost in this industry, and I have to emphasize that it is okay not to be okay. There’s nothing wrong. It’s okay not to be okay. Talk to somebody. Or if you know somebody who you think is not okay, ask them, Are you okay? What’s going on? Let’s have a chat, because that person might have some challenging thought processes that they may want to act on that. If they talk it through, they may rethink that process. They may think that rethink it and say, Well, you know, my issue really isn’t that bad, what I’m what I’m flipping out about, or what’s really upsetting me, or what I’m stressing about isn’t actually that bad. And it might only take a conversation. And if you as a you know, to our listeners, if you’re feeling that way, I strongly encourage you. Talk to a friend, talk to a spouse, talk to a brother, sister, mom, dad, whatever the case may be, talk to your dog. I mean, people, people, it’s hysterical because, you know, they now have, there’s the reason that they have dogs now in an airports for therapy for people that have challenges and traveling and flying, you’ll see it’s an increasing thing that you’ll see support pets offered through the airport like they’re hired to come in just walk around with a puppy, walk around with a dog and walk up to people and, you know, and people love to pet, love to a point where I’m looking, you know, when I look at retirement, whenever that day comes, Lynn and I are looking at the potential of, hey, we could be the delivery of puppies and make people smile all day.  

ALIA: I mean, I would hire you guys every day. 

TOM: Well, I remember that, but the point is that you can, there are tons and tons of options available, because there’s all kinds of burnout. You can overload burnout. You can under challenge burnout, which is intriguing to me, and the terminology of. And this is a I’m not a psychologist, so I actually wrote this down. The terminology specifically for under challenge burnout is this happens when you feel underappreciated and bored. Maybe your job doesn’t provide learning opportunities or have room for professional growth. If you feel under challenged, you may distance yourself, become cynical and avoid responsibilities. Does that sort of sound like a manager?  

ALIA: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, there’s, like you said, there’s different types of burnout, right? And I think when we are just looking at our to do lists and our calendars and what we have to cross off the day, and we’re not looking at life as a whole, and we’re not doing stuff that fuels us and makes us happy outside of work, it’s easy to crumble, it’s easy to struggle, and if you don’t have resources, please call your insurance and book a therapy session. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, TOM: No there’s not, it’s okay not to be okay. 

ALIA: I agree. But I think there’s generations that are like, Oh my gosh, don’t talk about vulnerability. And I’m like, say that 10 times fast, but I think it’s so healthy. Like, if we don’t talk about the elephant in the room, it’s just going to increase. And people are going to leave from portfolio to high rise and still be miserable, go from high rise to back to portfolio and not be happy and go to a different company. It’s like you’re not changing within yourself. So, you’re just repeating the problem, you know, and I’m not discrediting how busy and stressful the roles are. I think, making sure that you have support. One thing I have noticed is when I have leaders that have my back, it’s a lot easier to manage. But we can’t obviously say that that’s the case for everyone you know. 

TOM: No, of course not, but one of our future podcasts will be specific to leadership and how as a leader, you can support your team. You know, there’s that all those old sayings that you know, if you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room. From a leadership perspective, you know that there’s no more accurate phrase. I don’t as a leader and have been a leader in this industry for a while. I don’t want to be the smartest person in the world. My team, as you well know, can I’ll be going down a specific path on a topic, this is the way I want to do it. And my team will go, you might want to rethink that. And I appreciate that pushback, because it forces me to think about another, alternative thought process. Everybody, everybody has good ideas, everybody can provide valuable import input. You should always be willing, especially as a leader, should always be willing to accept that input. But even leaders burn out. I mean, I burned out. There’s, there’s all kinds of times that, you know, the stress of being a leader is very, very challenging. But you know, some of the things recovering that you want to do is addressing burnout is first and foremost, admitting you’re burnt out and taking a break. You have to be willing. It’s okay not to be okay. You have to be willing, in my opinion, to just simply raise your hand and go, you know, I’m just not doing good. Look at Simone Biles, at the not this year because she was rock star this year. She was rock star at the last Olympics too. But she actually stood up and went, you know, I’m not okay. I’m dropping out. That was, that was an incredibly audacious perspective, brave thing to do for the for the Olympics, yeah, but oh my god, I give her so much applause because she actually acknowledged nope, if I don’t do this, my health, my career, these Olympics and all future Olympics will be done and I will go off and fade into the sunset. And thankfully, she just raised her hand, went, Yeah, I’m not okay. Yeah, that’s and that’s okay. 

ALIA: I do have a good friend that’s a leader in this industry and an incredible leader, but she takes sick day every three months, and if she needs more, she’ll put that time off, but she takes a sick day and she goes to the beach, or she goes to a concert, or she goes and gets a massage that day, and she’s she doesn’t really take sick time and she doesn’t travel a lot. She’s got little kids, you know, if her kids are coming, so she’s like, I just needed me day, and then I can serve my team and my homeowners that much more. And I mean taking that time. Out of curiosity, what is your thing to do? Do when you need a day.  

TOM: One of the things that that I do to stress relieve, you know, my world, or relief stress in my world is better way of putting it. I’ll go to, I go to every single festival or concert in the park that I can find there, to a point where Lynn and I could have been at, you know, five in the course of a week in all over the town. Every town in Orange County has their own concerts in the park. Some of them are local bands, really good local bands. Some of them are covered bands. We just saw at a in an adorable little park in Laguna Beach, which we had never been to before. We just saw a Tina Turner impersonator who did, oh, who put on just an amazing concert. And those things take my mind off of my leadership role, off of my job, off of my career, off of my industry. Makes me focus on just my wife. Makes me focus on what makes me feel good, and which is always music. I will always refer back to music whenever I’m really just, I just want to put my hands around somebody’s neck. And we’ve all gotten we’ve all been there. I just happen to phrase it properly and openly. But when you get to that point, for me, I will, if I, even if I just turn off all my all my electronics and plug in music as the one electronic that I’ll use, I could sit there and just zone out for a half an hour and feel totally refreshed at the end of the day. Another thing is, you know, I go to Lake Mission Viejo. I’m a member of the lake here in California in Mission Viejo, and we’ll rent a party boat, Lynn and I, and we’ll go out just the two of us. It holds 10 people. We’ve done tons of parties on them, but we like to just do it ourselves. Inevitably, every single time we bring our Kindles so we can read, we bring a bottle of wine, so we can just kind of enjoy our time. We bring our food, and inevitably, we never once open our Kindles, because we’ll spend two hours just [chatting] each other. And when we’re done, it’s like we had just been on a week’s vacation, and that’s and it’s like, don’t do necessarily what I do, but it’s, it’s, I’m trying to just point out, think outside of your world. Think outside of your box. There are things locally, no matter where in this where, wherever you are listening to me right now, there is some place that you can go to relax. You can go to just feel yourself, get some of that stress out of your system. You got to refocus on your health and things that bring you joy on a constant basis. You always have to reevaluate your goals. Reevaluate your goals and your values. Always those goals, the goal posts in life, change every single day, your goal, your personal goals will change based on your surroundings, based on your life, based on your career, based on your relationships, all of those things can change. You have to be ready, willing and able to pivot, as long as you’re just open to the concept of, oh, change is inevitable. Change is the only constant in the world. Let’s be prepared for it.  

ALIA: Even if it’s crappy change, there’s growth in that. So, on the other side of that, there’s always either a lesson or a blessing. What is that corny saying? I don’t know. At the end of the day, you can learn from whatever that circumstance is.  

TOM: Absolutely I’m a firm believer for every listener out there, I’m a firm believer that every challenge, every problem, has an opportunity attached to it. You just have to be willing to open your eyes to an alternate thought. Every single challenge has a silver lining, every single one of them, every door that closes, another door opens. You know, use your own metaphor. Use your own analogy. Doesn’t change. It’s all the Exactly. It has the exact same meaning. There’s always an option. Life is about making choices, and you can make a choice to allow the problems that you are experiencing, to allow the challenges that managers go through on a day-to-day basis. You have a choice to allow that to Impact Your World on a personal level, or you have the choice to go, no, not so much at the end of the day, I’m going home. I want to be with my loved ones. I want to go to this party tonight. I want to go to a movie. I want to go to a concert in a park. I want to go. Those are choices as well 

ALIA: pedicures.  

TOM: Hey, I’m a pedicure fan. Okay, not a mani-pedi , not a mani guy, but I am a pedi  guy, so. But I think those are, those are, those are, are valuable. Tools that people need to at least acknowledge and remember that that there’s always a secondary thought. Every challenge has a silver lining. No matter what challenge it is, it opens up a door to think of things differently and find something else or find a good in everything. There is good in everything, especially in our career. People look at the challenges of our career, of management careers, and they forget the fact that, oh, it’s an economic proof industry, oh, it’s a flexible industry, especially since covid, there are more managers working remote than I think I’ve ever seen in my entire life, my professional career. But COVID changed. I mean, it made us all realize, myself included, I was, I was a proponent, or, or not a big supporter, I should say, of remote work. And I come to understand, well, yeah, that’s actually a good option. We have a remote worker that is in the way, up in the middle of nowhere in Oregon, so, and that she’s a team member. 

ALIA: And she’s amazing 

TOM: yeah, she’s a rockstar. Yeah, so no, but that’s just it. People, you just have to be willing to look at things a little differently.  

ALIA: Yeah, I think there’s that mindset piece, right? That mindset book is very, very long, but it’s so helpful, because you can look at things in a positive way or a negative way, and you get to have that choice. And I think that that does affect us in our entirety, and also having a hobby outside of work, whether it’s a physical hobby or a creative hobby, or, you know, paddleboarding is my new favorite thing. I’ve been dancing for a million years. I take a dance class, like, if you don’t know what your hobby is, try stuff. TOM: What kind of dancing share? 

ALIA: Uh, ballet, specifically, a bar class or a ballet class. And then I’m like, Oh my God, I feel like I’m 10 years old again. Like I see the world with a different set of eyes. TOM: That’s spectacular. I did not know that. 

ALIA: Yeah, bar is my favorite workout ever. There are great ones in Orange County. If you need recommendations, 

TOM: Oh no, we go to plenty of bars, but thank you. 

ALIA: not that kind of bar.
TOM: Oh, not that kind of bar? Oh, I’m sorry. 

ALIA: I’m sure I could take those recommendations too 

TOM: No, at my age, I’d probably throw a hip out, but, but putting that aside. But, no, I think it’s important that people have to focus on their health to avoid burnout. One last thing you want to cover is you know, you want to take a break, you want to make a change, and you want to explore alternative paths and opportunities. There is a huge, a huge concept that managers tend to forget. And they can. They can, if you’re working for a management company and you’re a portfolio manager, you tapped on this a little while ago. Your portfolio manager, well, you might want to ask here. You know of an opportunity coming available at a high rise or a large scale, or whatever? A site manager job or marketing HR, you just have to be willing to understand what the role is, understand if this is a career for you, and be able to say, yes, it is, but I need to make some changes this way or that way, and at the same time, go to your leadership and say, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m not sure this is working. I’d like to explore an opportunity for this on site job that’s coming available. Or, like you said, I’d like to explore something in the marketing side or the HR side. You just have to be willing to do it. You know, I’ve always told every manager that’s ever worked for me that you are not a property manager or community manager, and every single one of them pulls out a business card and says, You hired me, and it’s on my business card that I’m a community manager. And I remind them, yes, but that’s like a formal title. What you are is a personality manager, and if you’re able to manage multiple personalities. You are a rock star in this industry because there are multiple personalities on a board, times however many homeowners are in that association, times however many associations you manage, then you have to factor in your own organization, your team, your colleagues, you know, so on and so on. Then you have to manage your friends. I mean, your friend base, your circle of influence is also that’s why they call it a circle of influence. It influences, it influences you. So you have to manage those personalities as well. Most important, you have to manage your own. You have to manage the personality of the person you want to be, and then you have to move that forward in whatever capacity you can, because then you will be who you want to be. And if that’s in management, there’s a million tools out there, through CACM and every other organization out there that there’s plenty of resources available. People to help get through the potential of burnout in our industry.  

ALIA: Yes. 

TOM: Would you? Would you agree with that? 

ALIA: Absolutely, absolutely. I’m thinking of a scenario right now where somebody asked me, they just said, I don’t know that this. I’ve been doing this for five years. I don’t know that portfolios for me, you know, do I push the vendor side? Do I do this? Do I do that? And I was like, maintain what you’re currently doing, but take care of yourself first, and talk to your leader and continue to do a great job, which you’re already doing, but talk to your leader, because there’s so many different elements to this industry. I was lucky enough to be with the same company and end up in recruiting, and then end up in training and then ended up in back in portfolio. So, you know, there’s, there’s just so many opportunities that I, I think, just maintaining, taking care of yourself, and taking care of your team, or if you’re a leader, taking care of what you need to do, and maintaining good standing with your boards and doing a great job, then world is your oyster at this point. 

TOM: I agree. I’m going to end with this. I think I’m going to emphasize, and I know it’s going to be repetitious, but it’s okay not to be okay. Just say you’re not okay. It is there. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Everybody needs a break. We’re in a challenging industry, but we’re in a super positive industry. There is so much good in our industry. You know, communication and unity make community, and what a manager does on a day-to-day basis is improve the lives of people that live in a homeowner association, and there’s over 52-53,000 homeowner associations, with over 30 million people living in them. In California, that’s a lot, and a manager does nothing but help build that community day in, day out. But that’s taxing on Planet manager, so I’m going to end again with it’s okay not to be okay. Listen folks listening in today. We appreciate your time. I can’t wait to talk to you again. Alia, thank you for joining me. 

ALIA: Thank you for having me 

TOM: And we’ll see you all the next time. Thanks. And that concludes this week’s episode of CACMCHAT: HOA Life. Have questions you want answered, send them to podcast@cacm.org and we’ll address them in an upcoming episode. Make sure to regularly check out our website@cacm.org and don’t forget to join our rapidly expanding social media community. Just follow @ CACMchat on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and X. Thanks for joining me.